What's the biggest automotive failure from recent years? 

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 03/23/2016 at 17:48 • Filed to: None

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bob and john > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 17:51

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pick one:

thebigbossyboss > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 17:51

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When my suspension collapsed. That was a pretty epic fail.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 17:54

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GE90man > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 17:55

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phaeton

delta wing racer

faraday future

SVTyler > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 17:56

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thebigbossyboss > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 17:58

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As much as I despise the PT crusier it was not a failure in terms of sales.

bob and john > thebigbossyboss 03/23/2016 at 18:00

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I still cant believe that ppl paid over MSRP for those POS’s

thebigbossyboss > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:01

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If they paid over MRSP it better be for the woody edition lol.

EL_ULY > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:02

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ALL3 ARE AWESOME!!!!! PT Cruiser was no failure at all

bob and john > EL_ULY 03/23/2016 at 18:03

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the first 2 were cool. but a massive sales flop me thinks.

the PT loser: eh. its sold okay for a couple of years, then nose dived so hard the US took notes for their fighter jets.

DutchieDC2R > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 18:05

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Pretty much anything from VW from the last 10 years (yes, I am including the GTI and the R in this picture). Before you start educating me about how perfect of an all-rounder the GTI is, I’ve driven a couple of them (and an MK5 R32 and MK6 R), yes, they’re fast, yes, they’re extremely well-balanced and are great daily’s, but there is no other sporty car where I’ve been so bored. I’ve driven the R hard, properly hard and I’ll repeat myself for the fanboys, it is extremely well-balanced, but those ‘brrrrup’ sounds when shifting up did not wake me. Also, DSG sucks.

Regarding the Nissan, yeah, it failed misarebly, but you know what, at least they tried with a daring concept (FWD in Le Mans). I hope they keep it going.

Echo51 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/23/2016 at 18:07

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Why specifically? Admit it, you just want the Abarth 500 Assetto Corse version.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:08

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The PT Cruiser was actually a huge success. They sold over a million of them over 11 years and for the first few years, they couldn’t build them fast enough.

The Prowler was always meant to be a low-volume and experimental car meant to be the image car for Plymouth... but Daimler didn’t want to keep the Plymouth brand, so it became the Chrysler Prowler.

And how many other cars selling for under $50,000 had Indy Race car style front wheels?

So I disagree that the PT Cruiser or the Prowler were failures in any way.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SVTyler 03/23/2016 at 18:09

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That’s what I was gonna post... now I’ll have to think of something else...

bob and john > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/23/2016 at 18:09

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*spits drink*

THEY MADE THEM FOR HOW LONG?!?!?!??!

motorist > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 18:11

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I really and truly want this to NOT be a failure. But so far all I’ve seen is an overpriced halo car and logos being added to Fiat dealerships, that could just as easily be taken down next week. FCA - please prove me wrong and bring Alfa back to the US with force!

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 18:17

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Automotive failure, you say?

slipperysallylikespenguins > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:17

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I only agree with the SSR. GM expected them to sell like hotcakes and it flopped.

The PT Cruiser sold massively and had good reviews. It even inspired other automakers to make competitors.

The Prowler was never meant to be high production, but hey made nearly 12,000 of them. It outsold the Viper 5 to 1 during production. It’s v6 was more powerful than Chryslers 5.9 v8 at the time.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 18:18

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Pontiac... and the specific models that helped along the brand’s demise (because Pontiac lost a lot of money on them and didn’t meet sales expectations) are these:

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If Pontiac had stuck to making better/sportier versions of Chevies (and didn’t lose a ton of money), they might still be around.

-this space for rent- > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 18:25

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This fucking abomination

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/23/2016 at 18:27

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and the Pontoyota Viatrix GT. It had the glorious 2zz ge.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:36

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11 years... E-L-E-V-E-N.... Y-E-A-R-S.

... with only one half-assed update.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Echo51 03/23/2016 at 18:38

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The Asshat Corsett version?

Echo51 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/23/2016 at 18:41

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The hella-torquesteer version.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > bob and john 03/23/2016 at 18:51

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“the PT loser: eh. its sold okay for a couple of years”

Actually it sold well from 2000 to 2007.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/02/chrysl…

If it had gotten a *proper* update in 2006, it would have sold well for a longer time.

If they gave it the same updated engines that the Caliber got, a better automatic transmission and more comfortable seats with better quality cloth, those three things alone would have helped immensely.

Nymphicus Hollandicus > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 19:04

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Sneaky Pete > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 19:12

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Fisker.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Echo51 03/23/2016 at 19:27

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I rented a 500 a few years back and it had great brakes, but it rode like crap.

Obruni > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/23/2016 at 19:27

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I find myself strangely drawn to the Paceman, but its a fuck up. I’m not sure why the Paceman and 500L are still on the market here.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/23/2016 at 19:31

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False sir, GM did not lose money on these mentioned models. They were actually making money and had stopped the previous trend of breaking even in the late 90s and early 2000s. They were also poised to go full RWD line up with entry to expensive sports cars, but then they needed to be bailed out and the government made them drop the line.

As you can read here:

The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet. They said, “you don’t need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand.” And we said “well we can’t get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it.” And the Feds said “Fair enough, but everything else goes.” We said well we’d also like to keep GMC. They said “well, GMC is basically just like Chevrolet,” and we said “that may be true, there may be a lot of shared components, but GMC has an entirely different image, a different customer base, and people are willing to pay different prices for a GMC, and here’s the profitability,” and the Feds said “whoops, okay, keep GMC.”

So now we had Buick, GMC, Cadillac, and Chevrolet, and then, I wanted, badly wanted, to keep Pontiac, because Pontiac was on its way back, and it had been mismanaged for a number of years, you know, with ‘rebuild excitement,’ and the excitement was only in the plastic body cladding , mechanically there was nothing about Pontiac in the 90s that would make your heart beat faster. And with the solstice and solstice coupe, and with the Pontiac G8, which was a great car. We were embarked on a strategy of making pontiac different from the rest of GM in that Pontiac wouldn’t get any front wheel drive cars, they would all be rear-wheel drive, and the next G6, was going to use the architecture of the cadillac ATS, it was going to be a 3-series sized rear-wheel Pontiac, with basically the Cadillac ATS ‘de-premiumized,’ obviously, a lot of the cost taken out, but still fundamentally that architecture.

That was going to be the next G6, and I think we could’ve moved pontiac away from every other American volume brand and really started positioning it as attractive US alternative to some of the, and obviously at much lower prices than the european rear-wheel drive cars, but the Feds said “yeah, let’s just, how much money have you made on pontiac in the last 10 years?” and the answer was “nothing.” So, it goes. And, when the guy who is handing you the check for 53 billion dollars says I don’t want pontiac, drop pontiac or you don’t get the money, it doesn’t take you very long to make up your mind.

But I think it is a shame, Pontiac was on its way back, and it was killed before it, before the plant could really sprout blossoms, you know, it was well on its way. So, I agree with you, I think Pontiac was a great, wonderful history, mismanaged for a number of years in the 80s and 90s and it was clearly on its way back, and we were starting to see a very good customer base in solstices and especially in the G8, which was favorably compared in a lot of road tests to the BMW 5-series, people would say dynamically the car is as good and it’s more powerful and way cheaper, but that was too bad. but you can’t go through Chapter 11 without some really harmful effects.

Obruni > Echo51 03/23/2016 at 19:41

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the Fiat missed Sergio’s sales goal of 50,000 units in the US, but considering the overall market for 2-door hatchbacks the goal was always unattainable here.

The mistake was not upgrading the base engine before launching the car here, and has been made worse by Fiat not marketing the mid-level Turbo at all.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 03/23/2016 at 19:47

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I’m pretty sure that’s a Toyontiac Matribe...

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > CaptDale - is secretly British 03/23/2016 at 20:25

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They lost something like $10,000 on every Kappa car they built.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gmi…

And they would have made money on the G8 and GTO... until the US dollar fell against the Australian dollar...

I recall reading that they lost $2000 on every G8 they sold.

And the GTO did so badly, they killed it after just 3 model years. The high fuel prices at that time probably didn’t help either.

And from your quote above:

“ but the Feds said “yeah, let’s just, how much money have you made on pontiac in the last 10 years?” and the answer was “nothing.””

Let’s think about that... no money by Pontiac for the 10 years leading up to the bankruptcy.

The government was telling GM what MANY the the industry were saying for YEARS... that GM had too many brands with too much duplication.

It would be okay if they were making money, but they weren’t.

That’s why Buick and GMC survived and Pontiac didn’t.

Personally I think it was stupid that GMC didn’t get cut with Pontiac. And I was sad to see Pontiac go as well... but it all comes down to money/profit.

The root issue was that Pontiac was irreparably damaged by selling cars that were too similar to Chevy.

And there was no guarantee that the RWD plan would save Pontiac and make it profitable.

Personally, I think they should have tried a more conservative ‘Pontiac Excitement’ approach... Starting with having no more crappy base engines... like having a Sunfire with only the 2L turbo engine, a Grand Am with the 2L LNF turbo or the 3.9L V6 (no charge option), the Torrent with the 3.6L 24V engine standard, a Vibe with the more powerful engine only, etc.

That would have hurt volumes, but they would sell each unit for a higher dollar amount and it would become known that the Pontiac comes with the better engine as standard.

And I think that would have had a better chance of succeeding.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/23/2016 at 20:33

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Huh, interesting. I think they just didn’t advertise well. Honestly I don’t thing GM advertises well at all still. But i mentioned that somewhere else and I don’t feel like looking that up now.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > CaptDale - is secretly British 03/23/2016 at 23:25

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Reading this made me sad.

Nauraushaun > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/24/2016 at 00:24

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Disagree. The two Holden based cars are built in Australia for Australians where they are fairly successful. The fact that they were imported for Pontiac is coincidental, they weren’t Pontiac’s failures. Pontiac probably spent very little on them.

Nauraushaun > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/24/2016 at 00:25

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Really? It’s been on sale for nearly a decade, and is so successful it keeps having spin-offs made of it. It’s probably the best looking and most successful retro design there is, second only to Mini.

Nauraushaun > GE90man 03/24/2016 at 00:27

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The Phaeton was built for 14 years. Was it really a failure?

Nauraushaun > motorist 03/24/2016 at 00:27

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Alfa has been nothing but shit for 2 decades. I want them to come back too, but I’ll believe it when I see it

pip bip - choose Corrour > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/24/2016 at 09:13

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Takata?

GE90man > Nauraushaun 03/24/2016 at 10:01

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it was a great car, but no one really bought it, as no one wanted a luxury car with a Volkswagen badge on. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling vw was loosing money with each phaeton a few years into production

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Nauraushaun 03/24/2016 at 10:44

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Oh I know those cars have a long history of success in Australia... But that doesn’t change the fact that Pontiac did lose money on them.

And they did have to do a decent amount of work to them before they could be sold in North America... Starting with putting the steering wheel on the other side...

And given that fuel prices were hitting new highs at the time, the timing for the GTO and G8 was terrible.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 03/24/2016 at 11:07

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Makes us all very sad